Good Comanche Prebuy in the San Antonio/ Austin area?

[Andrew Fay]

Hi guys,

I whiddling down my airplane choices and was wondering if there was a good Comanche guy down here in San Antonio or Austin, TX. IF not, then Dallas or Houston will work too. I seem to recall someone mentioning a guy up near waco.


Thanks,

[N3322G]

Yes, Andrew - highly recommend Tim Talley from Clifton Aero. http://www.cliftonaero.com/

Please post if you buy something

[Kevin Ebsen]

Andrew: I had heard great things about Clifton Aero when I was in the process of buying my Comanche so I called Tim to see if he could do some work on the Comanche I was going to buy and install a primary engine monitor. He said he could I let him tell me when he could get to it, we scheduled it, but when it got time for the agreed upon appointment his shop was full and he was backed up and couldn't get to it. I eventually had to have him send me the engine monitor and had someone else put the unit in. In Tim's defense he did do some preliminary work on engine monitor and filling out paperwork for the install that he did not charge me for. I don't doubt he is a great mechanic or a great Comanche Mechanic proven by his inability to get my aircraft on the agreed upon date. Just a FYI my experience with Tim/Clifton Aero was less than satisfactory due to being put off/pushed back because he was so busy.

Like I said I don't doubt his shop does great work, I might even use them in the future, but if I do, scheduling is going to be better understood.

Kevin

[N3322G]

Kevin has a valid point and Tim told me about his plane because I wanted to know if he had done a new JPI - he felt badly - but then I've had that same scheduling experience with all but one shop (Air Parts of Lock Haven) in the 15 years I've been solely responsible for maintenance on the Twin.

My annual got pushed back three weeks this year with my agreement. Last year it was started exactly on time and finished 1 day later than expected after there were work items added because I had to have it for the CPPP course.

[Kevin Ebsen]

One thing I forgot to mention was I had pre-paid Tim about $7,000.00 dollars on a job that was suppose to cost $10,000. So while he did retun the money (which I thought would hold my appointment) and unit, he failed to hold up his end of the deal.

Pat obviously has a bond/good relationship with Tim and his shop that doesn't change the facts of what happened to me and pointing at other strawmen/situations still doesn't make it any less offensive.

[Kristin Winter]

Kevin,

I don't know whether you were treated properly or not, but will offer this as a one time professional, now hobbiest A&P. It is hard to predict how long any job is going to take on a 40+ year old aircraft. I never know how many screws I have to drill out to open something up, and I don't know what I am going to find when I get it open. Multiply this by 6-8 aircraft in the shop, and I can see how a shop can get behind. That is even without additional complications of suppliers being slow, mechanics calling in sick, etc. With a finite amount of space in the hangar, a shop is often faced with having no room to start a project on time.

But then, I am notoriously bad at figuring out how long something should take me. Hopefully, the professionals are better.

[David Pyle]

Since Comanches in Texas and contiguous states now converge on Clifton one can imagine the overload. Lately I have sent maintenance prospects/messages to Tim to which he has not responded, and I been there a few times myself. I know Tim.

His is not a big operation. How many workers? Hanger size limits operation. And now that Tim is an ICS board member that may take some time. There are alternative shops that work on Comanches in the SC tribe area if time and cost are a consideration.

[N3322G]

Dave,

I share this only because I do not wish to see Clifton's reputation unfairly tagged as being unresponsive.

Clifton owners shared with me that your emails are either blocked or put in spam rather than in-basket and are not read. I have shared with you previously, that personal emails to me are treated in the same manner.

Let me add that they also maintain past AA Chairman Gerard Arpey's multiple aircraft which are flown in from a north Ft Worth airport - where our twin is based.

I once again will state they are not perfect, neither am I but I do value their expertise, attitude, stock of Comanche parts and procedures. It is why I wrote the Feb 2011 article for the Flyer and once I catch up from helping husband heal from surprise out-of-town abdominal surgery, I will write about the 2011 annual.

Kevin, I don't mean to minimize your situation at all - after 16 annuals and other work under my personal sole responsibility - including Webco and now defunct Mike Rohrer's Altus, Clifton is simply the best I've found so far.

[Kevin Ebsen]

Pat: I might shouldn't have written the earlier post today. I don't want to soil Clifton's quality of work or reputation. I can't speak to that, do to what I posted earlier. My only reason for posting on Clifton was to mention an FYI, busy shop may not be able to get to you right away.(I probably did a poor job of that because of a little resentment yet) Kind of like taking a five star e-bay rating down to 4.75 or something. When I was in pursuit of a Comanche I did a lot of reading of this site and found it very valuable. Everything I read on Clifton was positive and I believe it to be accurate to this day, the exception I experienced was inability of his shop to hold to agreed upon date. All communications with Tim and his shop via phone and e-mail were a positive experience, the quick return of the engine monitor, unused money etc everything was above board.

Hope to meet up with some of the fine folks on this forum someday. I have owned 9427P for close to a year now and have been really happy with the Comanche so far. The previous owner and I still refer to it as "our" airplane, I think he had a hard time letting it go. Hudson Matlock is his name a true gem of an older gentleman.

Kevin

[David Pyle]

Pat,

For a long time I have supported and referred Comanche owners to Tim. In addition I have referred prospective owners to him for inspections. I thought it curious that as a long-standing (#730) ICS member, and Clifton customer, my email is not answered. Now I get the answer from you, not from Tim. Perhaps that is because I, along with Tim, was a recent candidate for South Central tribe rep/board member. Tim got elected by a SC member vote of 5 to 0. No hard feelings except about the questionable election "process".

So here is a question for you. Do you think it a conflict of interest that Tim, an ICS board member is a FLYER display advertiser and has significant business income from working on Comanches?

[Kristin Winter]

Dave,

No! Why would it be? This is no different from a member of garden club who advertises her nursery in the club newsletter. Should Tim be punished for being willing to serve on the ICS board and help out the organization? It is particularly instructive that Tim has been recommended for a long time before his being willing to help ICS. It may, or may not be good business on Tim's part to get involved in ICS. He runs the risk of people getting mad at him for political reasons and then choose not to patronize him. He really didn't need to sit on ICS's board to become known. As most people don't know who sits on the board, including me, the exposure is of dubious benefit. As ICS does not buy maintenance services and does not endorse one vendor over another, the potential of a direct conflict of interest arising is extremely remote.

[David Pyle]

Kristin,

Point made. However it is the perception of impropriety not the reality of Tim's and Scott Myers (also does Comanche business) as board members. I will simply suggest that when board decisions are debated they should recluse themselves from those that would affect their income from Comanche owners. Could Bob Weber be an ICS board member?

When you were SW tribe chief you chose not to sit on the board because of what you considered a conflict of interest. A bylaw amendment was voted in connection with that. Please explain. I thought that was precedent setting.

I know Tim personally, respect his knowledge of Comanches, but do not always agree with his business practices.

[Kristin Winter]

Dave,

Tim and Scott should recuse themselves from any matters that have a reasonably direct effect on their income. I haven't a clue as to what might come up that would be a direct effect as ICS does not purchases the services that either sell.

As to my sitting on the board, you are misinformed. I did not sit on the board as a tribe chief as there was an ICS bylaw that prevented it because I could be considered an "agent" of a general aviation manufacturer at the time. That was a bylaw that was apparently driven by people who did not understand what would constitute a conflict of interest and what would not. It was a bylaw dating back to the beginning of ICS, and no one could really explain the rationale, as none exists. If not for the bylaw, I would have served on the board as the fact that I have performed legal services for a general aviation manufacturer has no chance of raising a conflict of interest. My understanding is that provision was deleted in the bylaws.

"Appearance" of a conflict may be important when discussing judges and senators, but not tiny, private organizations. The notion is silly. The opportunity for graft or double dealing based on outside affiliations is nearly non-existant, unlike Congress or judges who make decisions on cases that can affect the stock value of companies, in which they might have an interest. Nothing ICS does or doesn't do is going to amount to a hill of beans in Scott's and Tim's small business. This is mountain-out-of-molehill in a major, major way.

[Jay]

Stepping back from theoretical conflict of interest issues and talking about shop scheduling, to my mind this is one of the toughest things for any shop to do correctly. We all want to be able to set our clocks (or at least calendars) by when we are going to drop an airplane off and pick it up. Seems simple enough.

But, when we are flying someplace and we need mechanical help (maybe an alternator or vacuum pump goes south) we sure want the shop wherever we are stranded to drop everything and help us out. Problem is, the "everything" that they are dropping is probably someone else's carefully scheduled maintenance. Add in working around people that work at the shop getting sick, delays for parts, unexpected problems that crop up and just everyday life and I'm amazed that anyone ever does anything on time.

I try to give my guys an extra week at least for work on the airplane. Most of the time that isn't needed, but when it is, I understand.

All the best,

Jay

[Zach Grant L1011jock]

I am an airline pilot...when we are not talking about girls, we are talking about airplanes ! I try to "sell" people who are interested on Comanches. I own two Comanches that could might be possibly for sale for the right price, maybe, someday. I think Ill recuse myself from any further discussion because there might be a possibility that maybe under a certain moon phase, on the 5th sunday of every third month that I might profit from being in the right place at the right time and talking up these airplanes to the right person who might buckle at the knees because I am the great magnificent grand poobahh of Comancheland...OR....we let everyone who wants and gets elected legally do what they can to further the fleet type, and assist ICS with needed specialized expertise. Both of these gents have that in spades! The majority of the technical team at ICS are in business doing technical work on Comanches. Thats why they are experts. If I have a heart problem I call a cardiologist. If I have a Comanche problem, I call a Comanche technical expert, probably at his shop. We don't discriminate against them, and they really can steer work their way, but they are very careful to not do that from what I have seen.

Additionally, if someone doesn't want to recieve emails from someone else and they block them, thats their choice. I have yet to see a law/ordinance/bylaw or standing rule that requires that anyone even have email/cellphone or any other modern communication method (it is a term of employment for some companies however). Dave, UNLESS you just got a JD degree and passed the board in TX, I might be listeneing a little more closely to the councellor from the left coast, before suggesting there is impropriety on either of these gentlemans parts, lest you find yourself up for a libel defence. If either one of them looses one customer due to your untrue suggestions, or the suggestion of untrue suggestions, then there are damages that can be recovered. Just a word of caution!

Now that the thread is totally hijacked, maybe we can move forward with some constructive comments.

-Zach