Fleet Airworthiness Steering Committee

[Kristin Winter]

[Hank Spellman]

[jeffrey aryan]

[David Lawrence - N8378P]

[Scott Ducey]

David, I agree that we should all be civil. I left the Delphi forum because of the lack of civility. As far as my presentation - the idea was to present a variety of 'options' to ICS for steering the ship in another direction. The concept was to (1) talk about specifics regarding the technical support role, and (2) describe how to pay for it. The second point was my responsibility, the first Kristins. I spent a few months working with Kris and reviewing the statements in order to address the direction we were given from the last Board meeting. This merely was a first step to get feedback / consensus from the Board. The next step would provide more details. While you contend that it is 'incomplete' it actually fulfills exactly what was asked of us. I have spent many hours of my personal time on this endeavor - not just for me, but for you and everyone else that is a Comanche owner. Kristin did even more. So I hardly see how telling us we are 'flapping our gums', unless you were referring to others.

Having said all this, I think both Kris and I have done more than what most have done. We have witnessed the tech talk chatter for years. We have debated and argued the issues. However, we did a bit more than just that. We spent our free time on this issue, and for that matter our money. We both believe that ICS needs to be going in another direction. The problem is ICS looks to the past and says that we have been successful - they have. But things are changing, and we need to evaluate if this model continues to makes sense. The old people are getting older, and the issues are going to get more difficult. The current model suggests that we should just hope that a young volunteer will step forward to solve our problems like Hans and others have. I have no objections to you disagreeing with our math, our suggestions, even our methods. But we have presented a cogent description of the problem, and crafted a solution WHICH can be financed. There are issues to be thought about and more work needs to be done. Both Kris and I agree with you. Unfortunately, the Board doesn't. And by the way, if you or anyone else thinks our plan sucks, we are more than open to other ideas. But so far, I have heard nothing from ICS or anyone else.

I do not have a problem if you do not like our work, but we have done a lot more than anyone else up until this point. The Board in the end not only said NO, but also did not budge on ANY issue. However, many of the members at the meeting and outside the meeting, acknowledged that the problems that we outlined were valid. That is why a number of us are frustated, and this is why you see all this flapping of the gums as you say.

I do not know that I can be any clearer or explain all this any further. The problem is simple, the solution requires work. A group of us are willing to do the work - but only IF it is supported by the current leadership. Replacing the leadership would cause a lot of animosity and division. While I am willing to work for a cause, I am not spending my time running a campaign to overthrow the gov't. If you believe that we should be "all about an expensive magazine" that is mostly filled with advertisements and human interest stories, we are going on the right path. If you want to preserve the greatest general aviation airplane ever built, lets work together. If you want to just let it die a slow death, then so be it. That frankly is the course we are on.

David, if you would like to talk about all of this over the phone as I indicated in my private email to you the other day, please feel free to call.

Best Regards,

Scott[/u]

[Alan Cheak]

The board reminds me of the High Scool Student Council Group.

In the end I feel the board must either be forced to change to what the membership wants or as a group we finally move on to start a new group with what the people really want. Type Support. Scott and Kris, good job for all the work you guys put in.

Alan

[Monica Rehkopf]

Scott and All,

The year before last we had the choice of two candidates for Vice President. The result was a very close call which shows that there are big chances for each candidate if there is more than one to choose from.

I highly estimate Don and he is a very good friend of mine. In fact we are ‘old’ companions from the 2003/2004 ICS 'revolution'. As far as I am aware of Don was the first ICS Treasurer who enabled us members to have a clear, open and very comprehensible vision into ICS’s finances. This cannot be appreciated highly enough.

Don has worked long and hard during the past years and yes, he has mentioned a few times that he wouldn’t mind handing the baton over to someone else. I have no knowledge of his present reasoning or decision.
I do not understand why the Board seems to be biased with regards to a new Treasurer. But then, I am not on the Board and do not know whether there are legitimate reasons for this mindset.

In my opinion people grow with the jobs they take over. I do not know Scott but I am absolutely sure that he would not go out there to shatter our precious society but that he would act prudently and take the same care as any other Treasurer to strengthen and not weaken ICS.

The number of returned ballots per election term has averaged somewhere between 300 and 350 since we started with ballot voting.
I have looked through this very interesting thread and have counted 23 different participants.
Scott, of these I would see ATLEAST 90% who would vote for you.
This is a good number to start off with.

I have never noticed any exceptional campaigning for the elections other than writing a bio for the Flyer.
So Scott, if you write up a good meaningful and convincing bio for the Flyer I am sure that you would be able to capture many more voters for yourself and your visions.

Don (Nelson) if you read this please be assured that I am 100% on your side (and you know this), and yet I feel strongly that we should give a willing young volunteer the chance to take over and bring some new momentum to ICS.

Scott, why don’t you try and have a go at it?
You already have many supporters!

Monica

[Zach Grant L1011jock]

I have little to add to this thread other than to point out that those posting on this thread have the proper idea. If you just stand on the sidelines and lob hand grenades, you will not effect change, you will just be a nuisance to those who are trying their best to do what they think is best. We vote for the board, directly or indirectly. As such we as members have the ability to put people in power who we feel will do the best job of supporting our ideas and crafting the Society in the way they feel best supports the members. If we do not agree with the decisions of those in power, we have the opportunity to install those who will be more akin to the ideas that we believe in. That is how the society works...HOWEVER...there have been many times when those who would be great, have declined for many reasons, from running. I have been very quiet on these boards as of late as I have not the time or the resources to be as involved as I have been in the past. I would love nothing more than to be able to step forward and be a candidate for whatever job needs to be done, but as things are, I am maxed out in the positions I hold. I believe you either step forward and give of yourself to the organization or you STFU. Those that have given, deserve the ability to complain, those that have not, put your money where your mouth is.

We have a society that though not perfect is the best resource for Comanche owners to keep their airplanes flying, and this is available at a very reasonable price, because of the many volunteers that do the dirty work. I will not debate the fact that the society needs to change...it does, it has, and if it is to survive it will need to adapt to the ever-changing environment that the FAA, Piper, and the findings of those that inspect these aging airframes present to the ownership. Yes, it is nice to feel the comradery of all those who own, love, and fly these machines, and that should not be lost on any future model. The fact that there is so little interest in actually doing anything but paying dues by the membership is very disheartening. I suppose it somewhat parallels the state of current society, but that is a different but relative discussion. Yes we want everything, now. But any change needs to be well thought out, evaluated, and then sold. If there are those that are not willing to listen, then they are wrong. If they listen and feel it is not a good solution for the group, then they are doing their job. If the majority feels they have poor judgment, then it is up to us as a society to see that the leadership more closely parallels the ideals of the constituency. Unfortunately, as is the case with most volunteer organizations, we are stuck with whoever will actually step forward and do the job. It may not be an optimal solution, but it does keep the seat warm, and keeps us from immediate disaster.
-Zach

[Mike Foster]

Greetings all,

I finally got a few minutes to sit down and read this thread. I was wondering why I hadn't heard back from Kristin, and now I know. I am in my second year of the position of SW tribe rep. Having attended the previous three board meetings to this last one, I can tell you I do not believe there is ONE current board member who has anything but the best interests of ICS in their heart or mind. That said, I also agree with Kristin's thoughts on the ultimate results of not taking at least some action in moving ICS in a more positive direction with respect to type support. I truly am regretting my decision to remain closer to home and attend the meeting via Skype, which turned out to be a disaster, and I had to turn it off due to relentless static.

After grazing through here, I have seen a load of good constructive comments, and a few that won't do much to further any ICS cause, much less type support. The comment (s) I agree most with are regarding changing the governance of ICS by volunteering to serve as a officer on the board of directors. There has to be an adult beverage that at some point has so many components of differing taste, that the drink as a whole becomes unpalatable no matter what else you do to it. If the taste of the BOD has reached that point to each of you, YOU must decide "what am I willing to do about it?"

As Hank has stated, any one of the people here can get three letters (assuming you know three people;^), and request to be placed on the ballot for whichever position you feel you would be most suited for. This coupled with a moderate effort of gaining a little voter support (shouldn't be that difficult with the advent of the internet and email), and away you go. If we do this a few times in the same election we can realize a positive shift in the issue of type support. My only hope in this would be that the volunteers who are elected not be so myopic that the overall health of ICS is sacrificed for an overly optimistic estimate of what can be accomplished with a given amount of time and money. I don't believe that to be the case with any of the participants here, just seen it happen recently on a larger scale, and we don't have the resources those people have.

I agree with Monica that Scott would be a great candidate for the office of treasurer, given his background and having spoken to him in person for a bit at a fly in here in S. Cal. As for the other positions, I am living proof that you don't have to be incredibly bright to hold down a position on the ICS board, you just have to care about the Comanche, the health of the organization, be committed to positive governance, and know your limitations (I still struggle with that one from time to time).

One last thing, as the 2010 convention chair for San Diego, I can tell you that it takes a lot of time and requires some decisions that some people may not agree with. That said, I think I've heard about enough of the bashing of the convention cruise. If you email Bruce Thumann of SC tribe he can give you a brief explanation of why/how that occurred, then you can lower your BP over that and move on to something else. Puhleese, give it a rest.

This hopefully will put to rest the theory that ALL of the BOD NEVER reads this or Delphi, therefore doesn't care AT ALL about the thoughts of this group.

I hope you all can come to San Diego this September and enjoy with us the program we are putting together. Should be great!!

Respectfully, Mike Foster

[Mike Foster]

RE: Zach,

What he said, ditto.

Mike

[Ben Ayalon]

[Kristin Winter]

[Zach Grant L1011jock]

[Andreas Riedel]

[SLIMDREDGER]