PA 30 Buyers Guide

[Jack Steinhauer]

Has anyone ever drafted a buyers guide for the PA 30

My last airplane was a BO A36 and I found a very detailed buyers guide that helped walk me through all the airplanes nuances and varies ADs. Given the age of the PA 30 it would be great to have that same kind of guidance. I will of course still hire a pre buy consultant / AMT when it is time to make a purchase, but I would like something to help with the initial search.

I have also provided a list of questions for would be sellers. Please let me know if there is anything you would add or change.

PA 30 - Buyer Questions
1 Useful Load
2 Hours flown in the last 5 years, broken down by year.
3 How many years under current ownership
4 Historical location of aircraft
5 Complete log books
6 Known damage
7 Maintenance History
8 Average annual expense and most expensive year
9 Name of servicing shop and AMT
10 Liens
11 Reason for selling
12 Corrosion
13 Bladder replacement
Right Main
Right Aux
Left Main
Left Aux
12 Engine overhaul
Year
Shop Name
Location
13 Age of engine fuel pumps, any weeping/leaks
14 Fuel Valves replacement
15 Starter replacement
16 Gear ADs
17 Status for the aileron spar doubler inspection for cracks
18 Autopilot fully functional
19 Co-pilot brakes
20 5/6 Seat

Note, I did come across a Piper inspection checklist from prior postings, but it's too detailed for my initial search. That said I attached it to this posting so others may use it.

Thank you,

Jack

[Zach Grant L1011jock]

I think you have a decent list here. I question some of it however as points 5/6/7 pretty much go together, and damage history is what it is. Most planes have some at this point and it doesn't affect value in this fleet very much. I would ask more about gear wire/switch harness, push pull cables and gear transmission status. 8 is not very well understood. An annual inspection is just that and is based on shop rate for a fixed number of hours, in this case roughly 35 hrs for a Normally Aspirated twin and about 40 for a turbo. Anything found is additional money in parts and labor. But the inspection still costs the same. People who defer maint. until the annual visit have a big bill and always gripe about how expensive their "annual" is...but its the way they maintain or in this case, don't maintain the plane throughout the year that is costing them more at annual time. 13/15 are not really applicable to lycoming engines. They are on condition and aren't prone to failure modes that would cause an immediate emergency. 17 is also a fairly worthless question. Are the kits installed or not. If not it is a simple 100 hr inspection that takes less than an hr. There are two kits, and two ADs, one is the balance bay nose rib, and one is the outboard hinge. Both are identifiable immediately by external inspection as to the status of the kits. Copilot brakes, well if thats something you think you need... Personally I find them more trouble than they are worth (so maybe it is a good question after all..for both sides of the fence). 5/6th seat...well lets just say look back at #1. Speaking of #1, that number can be many things and can be very misleading, especially if the plane hasn't been weighed or was weighed differently than at the factory such as including unusable fuel and oil instead of having a dry aircraft as it was weighed at the factory. One last word, don't put much stock in who the engine overhauls were done by, or in their age. Instead look at present condition, use history, and if any questions pull a jug and look for corrosion on the cam and followers. Good shops have bad days, and some local A&Ps do a heck of a job at building good engines! Look at the work done not the name. look at the usage, not at the age.

Zach

[N3322G]

Ditto Zach's remarks.
Especially on gear details, cost of annual and useful load.
Even if a Twin has been weighed, it may not have been per Piper Spec.

Suggest adding PA39/PA30C/Rs. Mostly same plane, just one engine counter-rotated.
Not specific to TwinCos but also suggest more detail on flying history. I'd ask hours by month in last year.

Personal bias - I would take our Lycomings over Continental engines any day.

[LeWayne Garrison]

I agree with Zach's remarks about annual inspections. Too often you hear of a $15,000 "annual". Dive a little deeper into the story and you find the inspection, while maybe more expensive than it should be, was a tiny portion of the bill. Even the repairs were not the major portion. Often owners do a bunch of, suggested or not by the shop, alterations and modifications that add up to the major portion of the cost.