copilot brakes

[Frank]

How hard/expensive is it to add right side brakes to a PA-30? Are parts available? Is it a logbook entry, or more involved?

[N3322G]

Frank,

Since this Forum started, haven't seen anyone be successful with co-pilot brakes. Why do you ask?

[Frank]

That surprises me... thought it wouldn't be that hard. I'm asking because I want to be able to give instruction in my '65 PA-30, and my insurance won't allow a low time pilot in the left seat if I don't have brakes on the right.

[N3322G]

Thought that might be the reason - doesn't really make sense to me - using brakes is a pretty basic pilot skill. If they are licensed, braking skills ought to be in place. You do have to learn the make sure its down and well on the mains before hitting the brakes or you will go through tires quickly.

I went from a 140 to the Twin at 40-50 hrs and my skills at the time weren't all that great - except for navigation. Braking just wasn't a problem. Of course, initial training for my landings was at a larger airport before I was allowed to land at the home 2600' strip where only the middle 10' or so of 30 were paved.

[Timothy Poole]

Hi Frank -- We operate a PA-30 in our flight school and have no such limitation in place. Our FSDO voiced concerns along that vein since we are at a short field (2660 ft) so first flight with 0 time multi people has the CFI left seat and we relocate to another longer airport nearby, seat swap, and go from there. That isn't a hard requirement either, but was something we decided to do as necessary to keep the FSDO happy. Their concern was not as much braking during landing as it was maintaining directional control if you lose an engine during the takeoff roll considering they've no or minimal experience in a light twin.

Have you considered talking to a different insurance company?

Tim

[Frank]

Doing it that way makes sense. I probably will talk to another insurance company, though I have quite good rates with my present company (for personal and business use only) and hate to give those up!

[Pat Donovan]

Does the Twinkie have the same handbrake/parking brake handle as the single? Isn't that reachable by a person in the right seat?

PatD

[N3322G]

Toe brakes in mine

[Frank]

Nope, toe brakes.

[MULEFLY]

Frank... my airplane has them... installed at the factory. Some folks say if you are going to install them that you have to practically disassemble the airframe and start with the brakes and then re-assemble the airframe around them. I don't know... I have only seen one aircraft that had them installed as a retro-fit. Bill Wenkman had them on his twinco and had found them on a wreck out of the UK... Bill was > 80 when he flew west and has been gone for several years. He had almost 30,000 hours --- I think he put them on as a retirement project... I've looked at mine and taken pictures for others... it would be one hell of an effort.
Jim

[Frank]

Thanks, Jim. Doesn't sound like something I want to do. I'm going to abandon this idea!!

[Charles Schefer]

Frank sounds like you've decided but to echo Tim's comment... there is also a flight school at my field (HEF) that has a PA-30 on the line and it is used for initial multi training. There are toe brakes on the left and NO brakes on the right. I've not heard of the FSDO (same as Tim's FSDO) having any issues with it, tho regarding Tim's comment of relocation to a longer runway... at HEF we are already at 6200 x 15 runway length / width so there's no relocation requirement. I'd push the issue with your FSDO.

- Chalres

[Timothy Poole]

[Stan Faust]

The center hand brake sounds like a good deal if that can be done. I was thinking about adding brakes to the co-pilot's side, because I want to put a large ferry tank in the normal pilot's side (port/left). The trip I am planning is KASH to EGNT and it would be nice to be able to carry 20 hours of fuel when I leave on a day that is about ISA -10:-) I do not want to bother with the paperwork at intermediate stop points and being able to get out of the door quickly could also prove helpful!

Stan N7110Y

[kenshaffer]