Gear selector recommended position

[Warren Janzen]

Hi folks, I'm new so hopefully this isn't a dumb question. After takeoff and gear is up, is it best to leave the selector in the up or neutral position? I think the pump is always running if left up?

While landing I assume you leave it in the down position so that the pump is putting force on the gear so it's sure to not collapse. should it be left there or put back to neutral (middle position) after gear is down?

Anyone have some video footage of emergency procedures while on the jacks. I've tried mine on jacks but can always learn from someone else's tips.

Thanks Warren

[Kristin Winter]

Warren,

I am really glad that you asked the question, as we have a really big problem here which now that we have identified it, you can fix it. You seriously need to get with an instructor that knows the Comanche. The problem is that there is no pump. Don't feel bad, you aren't the first to make that mistake. It is not a hydraulic system at all. It is an electromechanical system. There are a number of CFF trained Comanche instructors listed in the Comanche Flyer magazine. You might also look for the next Comanche Pilot Proficiency Program (CPPP) course that are offered from time to time. These include a day of ground school, a chance to perform an actual emergency extension of the gear, plus a couple of hours with one of the instructors.

To answer your question, I would just leave it up. It really doesn't matter. In the later Comanche models Piper got rid of the middle position.

[Matt Bogard]

Warren,

I can't agree with Kristin's advice more. When I bought my Comanche I spent 10 or 15 hours flying with a CPPP certified instructor to meet the insurance requirements and the experience was WELL worth it. We spent a good deal of time discussing and exploring things like the gear, fuel, and electrical systems in the plane. The CPPP program is also an excellent investment in terms of knowledge gained.

I leave the switch either up or down, never in the middle. The electric motor has limit switches that tell it to shut off once the gear is either up or down.

[Don Nelson]

Hi Warren,
Kristin and Matt give good advice.
Within a day or two, the Comanche Flyer Foundation will be posting info on its next Comanche Pilot Proficiency Program (CPPP), to be held in Leesburg VA (KJYO), October 11-12.
Not all that far from you, in a Comanche!

Check back for complete info by clicking on CFF from the ICS home page menu bar; then Pilot Proficiency Program at top of CFF menu.
Or email me.

Best Regards,
Don W. Nelson
ICS #118
CFF Treasurer
icsguy@msn.com

[N3322G]

Warren,

Ditto all of the above advice.

FWIW I've been flying our Twin 1st under my Mom's instruction and now under my ownership for 44 years - I still go get instruction regularly either from CPPP, CPTP or a local Comanche knowledgeable instructor.

Be sure to get the Maurice Taylor DVDs etc from this website here's the link. http://www.comancheflyer.com/NS/cff_merchandise.php

Hope this helps.

[SLIMDREDGER]

Warren: I second the advice given in the previous posts to you, and will add one more thought. I have owned my PA30 47 years and about 10 years ago had a complete electrical failure after takeoff. I had to put the gear down manually and I reviewed and followed the instructions on the reverse side of the floor gear panel to lower the gear. Everything went well on the landing and taxi back to the shop.

Several years later I attended one of the early Comanche courses and they had a gear box simulator and demonstrated that sometimes the jackscrew realease lever can be bound by a jammed transmission gear box. This jam pressure can be released by turning the small wheel that connects to gear motor to the transmission. I had never heard of a jammed jackscrew and/or how to release it, but learning that fact (and trying it for real in the practice gear box) in my opinion alone justifies the full price of the course.

In my succcessful manual gear extension situiation I did not have a jam, and at the time I would have had to make an expensive gear up landing, if I had one. Luck was with me. A year ago John Rabourn and I bought a PA30 for a parts airplane that had been landed gear up. From conversations with the owner, who had owned the airplane less than 2 years, I believe he had a jam as he could not release the jackscrew when he tried the manual gear extension. The airplane was being ferried, low on fuel, to another airport for fuel and the pilot did not have time to contact someone who might have helped him get the gear down.

I'm surprised that Piper does not go into this issue in the emergency gear extension instructions that are printed on the back side of the floor panel that accesses the emergency gear extension hardware. I suggest that ICS should make up a sticker outlining the jackscrew jam release procedures that could be pasted along side the manual gear extension instructions in the airplane. They could also add an addendum in the handbooks that Zach authored that describes the procedure. A complete discussion of this issue (Matt?..Hans? ) would be a worthy Comanche Flyer article. I flew my airplane more than 35 years and had never heard of this possible problem...so I'm sure there are plenty of pilots out there that need to know.

Al Powers ICS 2978 N88AP

[steen]

Al,
Not to change gears, but, as a fellow long-time PA-30 owner, how did you have a total electrical failure?
Alternators or generators?
What was the causal factor?
We gotta know!
Steen

[N3322G]

Steen,

Don't know about Al's but ours was after annual and successful annual check flight by the then owner, Mom.

Both alternators died. One alternator lost a belt and another had a bearing go. This was in the 80s so no help from stuff we have today. IFR, broadcast and shut everything down, u-turn to VFR, battery recovered enough to put gear down with green light. Happy ending.

[Zach Grant L1011jock]

Being a big jet guy, and also operating Aztecs and Navajos over the years, I center the gear selector as my climb check flow. Obviously in aircraft post 1965 that only have up and down positions, this is not an option, but for me, it is good habit that keeps me common with the other aircraft I fly frequently. There are a couple of benefits for having the gear in the off position. First, the off position removes ALL power from the motor. Thus you can stick your fingers in the gear transmission well knowing the motor isnt going to start in either direction unexpectedly. Without the off position, pulling the breaker is the only way to safely do this. The next is that probably the most common failure in the gear is the failure of the up limit switch. If the switch is left up, and the switch fails, eventually the motor breaker will blow. Many will then try to put the gear down on the other end of the flight only to find nothing happens. Hopefully resetting the breaker will enable the gear to go down normally, but more than a few motors have been smoked before the breaker blows. At this point the gear is jammed in the up position and the load on the transmission needs to be removed by rolling the coupler down until you can easily release the gear release lever. If you force the release lever when the gear is jammed, the only thing you will do is bend the release and you are then pretty much out of luck, unless you roll the gear down manually all the way using the transmission coupler. Getting back to the center position on the switch, IF you notice that the gear up amber light does NOT illuminate within about 10 sec of you putting the switch up, go to off, and continue the flight. Arrival at the destination should be normal in the fact the gear goes down normally without having a motor smoke or the breaker blow. Obviously, you would then want to have the plane looked at to figure out what went wrong, but you have averted the potential for an emergency. So, my technique is to use the off position when airborne if it is available.

-Zach

[SLIMDREDGER]

Steen: Strange, I don't recall learning the specific cause details. I remember the Ammeter was pegged on full charge to the extreme right side of the gage about 5 minutes after take off. The shop had changed to light weight starters and a new copper cable back to the battery box. It was a dead short somewhere in the new installation. They were very embarrassed. No charge fix.

AHP

[Richard Lanning]

As a new Comanche owner, I second the idea of an article on the emergency extension process with a jam. Putting this into a little step by step process that could be taped to the underside of the gear cover would be great.

I plan on attending one of the Comanche refresher courses when one is in my area. In the interim, I need all the help I can get.

[Alan Cheak]

As another big jet guy I totally agree with Zach's technique. On climb out after setting up the power of 25/25, my flow is to turn the fuel pump off and to put the gear selector to the middle position. Also I now know that I only have to move the gear handle one position for the gear to come down.

Cheers,
Alan

[Charles Schefer]