Update on purchase journey

[Arthur Gunn]

Been back and forth. Started looking at Comanches then was advised to stay away since parts are not available. An A&P told me parts hard to come by. Told of a 250 in MN by a broker that has been in shop for 6 months waiting for parts. That worried me more. Started looking at 235/Pathfinder/Dakota but not much on market that I like in price range. Spoke to Cliff and he told me parts are available if you know where to look. So started looking again at PA24.

Found one, a 260, that caught my eye. Engine at about 1,400 hours, top OH 350 hours ago. Garmin 430 W coupled to S Tec 50 with altitude hold and GPSS. Airframe about 6,500 hours. Gear AD done. All ADs complied with. Excellent reputable shop did engine work and reputable A&P maintains it. GMA audio panel, lots of other upgrades. Owner says to make an offer. Suggestions? Looking for price suggestions and whether I should get a Comanche being a 200 hr pilot. I know I have a biased crowd here, but really love the model. Wish Piper never stopped making them. Arrow doesn't seem to be like Comanche and Arrow seems to be a downgrade. Also what is ballpark cruise at 8,000 feet? Owner is claiming 160 knots with mods at 75% power. That seems high. Comments?

Thanks in advance.

[N3322G]

Hi Arthur, Gosh a chance to gush about Comanches. Thank you!

Seriously - The performance cited in well within capabilities IMHO. Used to race against 260s.

The thing that I liked best about the Comanche - coming from a Piper 140/Warrior license getting planes - was/is the stability in flight. I can actually take my hands off the yoke and assuming it is appropriately rigged, it keep straight and level for awhile.

I agree with Cliff - so far, in 43 years, my longest wait for a part was shipping time. Cliff is an extremely knowledgeable Comanche guy and what he doesn't know, he finds out. As usual, it frequently isn't what you know but who you know.

That being said, I do subscribe to continuing education on flying in general and my aircraft in particular. I learn from the Maurice Taylor DVDs every 24 months when I watch them again, I've taken the 3-day Comanche education twice and I log onto Comanche Forums every day so I can learn from others ... and try to return the favor by sharing what I may know.

You will have a learning curve at 200 hours so find a Comanche experienced instructor that can help and practice, practice, practice. Folks on this Forum can help with things you find along the way.

Oops, I'm sure folks mentioned in the past but a good pre-buy with someone like Cliff is a MUST. No one sees everything but he's awfully good - he looked mine over at a CPTP Service Clinic and i was impressed. It made my normal Clifton guys nervous but needn't have been - airplanes are hardware and do wear so there will always be something. I remain very pleased with Clifton and enjoyed the also-experienced set of Cliff eyes.

[Kristin Winter]

Arthur,

You live near one of the really good Comanche shops in the country. That takes one concern off the table. Even good mechanics with a good reputation will miss things on a Comanche.

I like the Arrow. I got my first complex experience in an Arrow. It is a Chevie to the Comanche's Beemer. The Comanche is solid, responsive, fast, and very, very strong.

Without speed mods, I would expect 155-157 kts so I can believe 160 kts.

You need a pre-buy. If the plane is in the south central, there is Tim Talley at Clifton Aero. In the middle, there is Webco in Newton, KS. Up north is Cliff at Heritage Aero in Rockford, IL. Southeast you best bet is probably Bill Turley at Aero Engineering, Bartow, FL. Out west, I can help you.

As for valuation, I need way more information. You can shoot me an email at kristin_winter at comcast dot net if you want some more specific thoughts. A link to the advertisement for the plane would help.

[Arthur Gunn]

[Arthur Gunn]

[Jim Worley]

Arthur,
I think your making a great choice. I cruise LOP in the 8-10k range and get 157ktas at 64% power and 11.3 ish GPH. 61' 250 with speed mods. I think I am probably in the middle of the road as far as performance goes. There are are many faster people on this board.

V/r
Jim

[Andrew Foster]

Jim,
Is your 61 fuel injected or carbureted ?

Andrew
61 250

[Jim Worley]

Andrew,
It's FI. Previous owner upgraded from a carb in the 90s.

V/r
Jim

[Arthur Gunn]

So flew in the Comanche 260. First time. Trying to figure out the model. I thought it was a B, but a POH was for an A. It is a FI 1965. Instrument panel not standard T. Some questions/concerns:

1. Checking s/n to see correct model. Hope it's a B as useful is 200 pounds more. Need to get correct W/B info from owner.

2. Family friend says oil consumption is one quart every 3 hours or so. Is that normal.

3. During steep turns, metal on top of wing appeared to buckle by rivets. To a lay person like me, it seems abnormal.

Was blown away by speed, climb, and stability.

Comments?

[9089P]

Hi,

A 1965 260 Comanche would be an "A" model. The "B" started in 1966. It is very easy to tell the difference as the A has 2 side windows while the B has 3.

A quart every 3 hours is high in my experience. That usage would be more common to a Continental engine not a Lycoming. The usage is somewhat dependent on where you keep the oil level. If you keep an io540 full, ie 12 qts, the engine will very quickly blow out 4 qts of oil. No one I know keeps them full. Mine will blow out oil until it gets to about 7 qts where it will stabilize and essentially use no more oil to oil change at 30-35 hours. The engine has 1500 hrs and has done this since new.

"Buckle" might be too strong a word, "flex" maybe? The skins on the Comanche are thin but strong and in slow flight or maneuvers you will see flexing. Not a problem.

If you can afford it the B it is worth the extra $, but the 65 260 is a nice aircraft.

Good luck, Don

[Kristin Winter]

Arthur,

Don's information is good. All Lycoming engines blow out the first quart or three, depending on the engine. Don's blows a bit more out than I am used to in a 6 cylinder, but I commonly don't try to put in more than 8-9 quarts depending on the engine. Even the little four bangers in my twin don't want more than six quarts in them on an 8 quart capacity.

Whether you want a B model depends on whether you really want to be able to remove the back seats for more cargo space or like to be able to get into the baggage compartment while in flight. I do, so when I was looking for a Comanche, I looked at 1966 and newer.

IMX, most airplanes will show some ripples in the wings under high G's. There is no way to make the wing rigid without making it exceedingly heavy. However, the Comanche wing is very strong and the only cases I know of them breaking were badly done aerobatics and by trying to look inside a level 6 thunderstorm. The fatigue life of the wings has never been discovered, and there are singles and twins will well over 10,000 hours.

[N3322G]

Arthur,

Ditto on the oil consumption. 8 on the dipstick for my twin - if filled to that level, 3-5 hours per qt. If kept at 5.5-6 qt on the dipstick then we get 18-25 hours per qt depending upon the type of flying - same pilots same engines. For the twin the minimum oil is 2 qt.

Of course, checking for metal in oil filter and oil sample analysis would put some numbers to this aspect of engine health.

[Arthur Gunn]

So it is still in the running....

One partner checked with Lycoming and as noted above, seems to be normal especially since owner keeps oil at higher levels.

Piper confirmed it is an A model.

Looking at Ron & John panels to have the panel redone and to budget for that and an Aspen 1000 Pro PFD.

Owner's initial asking price is $65,000. Thoughts? We think we can negotiate down given situation.

I appreciate everyone's comments.

[Matt Bogard]

I don't know the market well but unless the paint and interior are less than ten years old it may be a little high on price - I would think $60,000 to be very reasonable.

[Arthur Gunn]

Well I am outvoted....looks like we are passing on this bird.