Nose Cowl Fastners

[Charles Schefer]

I've already read other threads on this topic including this one -> viewtopic.php?f=86&t=6330&p=52261&hilit=cowl+fasteners#p52261 and I know from those threads that others have converted to using nut plates and screws for the nose cowl instead of those pesky Southwind fasteners (which my IA and I spent 30min fighting with the other day). My plane has beautiful stainless steel hardware all over including the engine cowls which have really nice Phillips head fasteners with stainless steel beveled / conacle trim washers - I just love them. But those coin-slot Southwind fasteners are still on the nose and ugh what a pain!!!

So I spoke to Phillip over at Webco and he suggested the nut plates and screws. When I asked about an STC or some type of FAA approval for this conversion he said I needed to read up on "owner supplied parts" and then call him back to order. I've heard of this more than once and in fact even my PMI at the FAA had mentioned it to me at one point. Any thoughts on this topic appreciated and specifically with regard to the nose fasteners.

- Charles

[MULEFLY]

Put a Miller Nose on it and you gain a locker good for up to 130#...

Jim

[Charles Schefer]

[MULEFLY]

Charles.. I think it is available (or close)... Kts-2U has the STC (so I'm told). I agree the painting would be a pain tho. I have it, I like it, it was on the airplane when I purchased it. Sometimes I pull into an FBO and get asked, "How do you like your Seneca?"

All the best!
Jim

[Charles Schefer]

Jim, Knots2U does have an aftermarket nose for the Comanche but it's not the Miller Nose and it does not have a storage compartment. It's just a slightly longer nose that is allegedly more aerodynamically efficient. At least that's my understanding though I could be wrong. Their "Radar Nose Kit" is what I am thinking of -> http://www.knots2u.net/radar-nose-kit-p ... 9-30radar/

- Charles

[N3322G]

Yup - hate those southco fasteners. Did the nut plates and screws a few years back on the nose cowl. Next improvement is teflon chaff strip vs cotton shred-prone chaff strip.

[MULEFLY]

I think that they may have both... the just purchased/agreed to the Miller mods in the last couple of years. I know that they were working on the Miller wing lockers and I told them that if they wanted to see an actual Miller nose that I would bring my airplane over... only 30 miles away.

Jim

[Charles Schefer]

[N3322G]

Covered in last week's CPTP Seminar under owner produced parts. The screws are the equivalent form, fit and function in my book.

[Charles Schefer]

[Charles Schefer]

[jeffrey aryan]

Charles,

FYI,

Another approach you might look into is installing "Camlock" style fasteners. The later models have them as standard equipment. Hence, the paperwork shouldn't be that big of a deal. The physical installation process might be about the same cost as installing nut plates. It's worth looking into.

I am going to install them on my twin just before it goes into the paint shop. FWIW.


Jeff

[Charles Schefer]

Thanks Jeff. Camlocks are (I believe) what I have on my engine cowls now. The prior owner replaced almost 100% of the external hardware with stainless steel hardware when it went to paint a few years ago (all except for the SouthCo fasteners on the nose that is). I didn't know camlocks might be an option - that was my original aim. I suppose the one advantage of nut plates and screws is that the cowl can lift straight up with one person. With any kind of cam lock or fastener the sides have to be pulled or stretched slightly in order to lift it up. I do like your idea though and will look into it.

- Charles

[Charles Schefer]

I checked... and all my engine cowl fastners are stainless steel cam-locks.

Back on the nose cowl... This morning I had a chat on this topic with my Principal Maintenance Inspector (PMI) at the local FSDO who oversees my 135 charter certificate (to be clear my PA-30 is not on that cert it is just Part 91 but I wanted his opinion). He said that changing out the SouthCo nose fasteners to nut plates and screws is a good idea but from a paperwork standpoint it's just "substitution of parts" under AC 43.13-1B. I pulled the entire AC down from the FAA website and chapter 7 is the part that deals with hardware. He said replacing using A/N counter-sunk pan-head screws and washers / nut plates would work well. He also said that in his mind this is a simple substitution of parts with no Weight & Balance impact so no 337 is required as it's not really a "major" alteration. He said a simple logbook entry should suffice citing substation of parts under AC 43.13-1B. He also said ultimately it's up to the mechanic installing to determine (major / minor) but in his opinion it's minor. He also said he'd be happy to grant a field approval if we wanted to call it major and do a 337.

We also talked about nut plates and screws vs newer style Cam Lock fasteners and he said either would be fine but he said he thought nut plates and screws would be better on a PA-30 nose for 3 reasons:

1) Easier and cheaper to find a replacement in the field if one is missing

2) He felt cam-locks could come loose more easily than a screw and could do more damage to a prop given the location

3) Given the way the cowl lifts off - nut plates and crews would mean the cowl does not have to be pulled out both sides to lift off the way it does with fasteners (my PMI used to work on PA-30s and is familiar). Pat also commented on another thread that with nut plates and screws she can take the cowl off by herself.

So I think I'll be calling Phillip over at Webco today to order stainless nut plates and screws today along with washers and rivets for install.

By the way... my PMI also said that the topic of "Owner Produced Parts" does not apply here because these are not parts I as the owner have produced. He said OPP comes into play when the owner manufacturers a part and has some original basis for doing so. For Example: The PA-30 battery box - I just ordered a Bogurt stainless steel box but had I decided to buy aircraft grade stainless steel and make my own battery box to the same specs as the original - that would be "Owner Produced". I could also enlist the help of a machine shop to do the actual metal work. But just buying screws and nut plates is not "producing" anything. But under substitution of parts AC 43.13-1B the nose hardware can be replaced legally with a simple logbook entry..

This is what I learned today on this topic...

- Charles

[N3322G]

Thanks for sharing - also nice to hear positive FSDO input.