Heads up on 530W Repairs

[N3322G]

I'm sharing this because it changed my thinking about Garmin products both from a quality view and from a service after the sale view. I had given Garmin preference over other vendors when we purchased the 340 audio panel. Guess I should have paid attention to the fact that the first shipped unit was faulty. That aspect accounted for 3 of the 5 trips back to the avionics shop to get the 1 day install actually operational. Still, we bought a 295 and later 496 handhelds. In non-aviation we bought Garmin NUVI for the car and Garmin Etrex for backpacking.

Keep in mind I wrote a check for over $1,300 to fix a broken knob. $1,100 was to Garmin and the rest covered remove, install and $99 in shipping.

It started when the co-pilot had programmed our route for the flight on the ground. While midway through the flight, he checked something and found the lower right large outer no longer worked. Hmm. We shut the unit down and powered it back up. The knob still didn't work.

No big deal in VFR weather but I was surprised that a knob failed after 5 years of light use and only used by two adults. Back at the hangar, I looked for a set screw - thinking perhaps it was something I could easily fix. Didn't find anything.

Back at the house I emailed a trusted source and he said - unit has to be pulled and sent to Garmin. Bummer. I'm thinking that this unit is the single most expensive and newest thing in the panel, and its knob breaks, come on. I couldn't recall any other items in the aircraft that had ever had a knob cease to function - other stuff broke but not a knob. Actually I can't recall any knob of any electronic thing I've ever owned, ceasing to function. Nothing works forever but I did expect 10 years of trouble free operation.

I wanted to know how long this was going to take, so I called the Garmin 800#. Guy said the same thing - had to send the unit in and it would take 5 days. He also said the service was fixed fee and everything in the unit would be updated - including the software. Called the Garmin dealer on the field and it took him maybe 10 seconds to pull the unit - its all about the tools and expertise.

Being a retired computer industry person, I did write down the software versions 3.3/3.2 that I could get to on the power up cycle because of course I couldn't get to the Aux pages.

With shipping, it was exactly 2 weeks before the unit came back. One bright spot was we flew without the 530 on board and re-learned how to program the 496. We always talk about this being back up but really hadn't walked through the process in the airplane. So the Pollyanna in me says this is a good thing. I later noticed that Garmin signed off on the service in one day and I can only guess that the unit wandered around Garmin for another 4 days. To be fair, they did offer to loan us a 530 for $250.

When the unit came back the Garmin service report and 8130 said they had updated all the software and applied SB 0949 and other Service Bulletins. I was only worried about SB0949 because all the other SBs had been applied in 2010. The 2010 log entry showed software upgraded to 3.3/3.2 and specified the Revision levels of the SBs applied. Garmin provided no such documentation. There was no documentation on what 0949 was or did to the unit or what software level was now on the 530.

The on field dealer re-installed the unit and did a fairly thorough operational check and made sure customization like the crossfill to the Shadin fuel computer and the 496 were still there in the 530. The only thing we couldn't get to work was the 496 crossfill. I took the 496 home and husband checked its software level etc and found no trouble. Both the 530 and 496 are stabilized Garmin products and are no longer offered new by Garmin so we didn't expect any changes but checked anyway.

It sure did make me want to know what software Garmin had changed per their documentation because the 530 had powered up with the same software levels it left with 3.3/3.2 - hmmm. So now we have one function not working and unknown changes made to the unit. I called Garmin to understand what work was really done on the unit.

They declined to give me the SB 0949 contents because they "only give that to dealers". If the dealer had done the work, I'd expect him to supply this information but Garmin did the work. The second 800# guy told me that 4.01 was the current software level. That made me even less happy because I already know the unit was not at that level - he told me I could pull the unit and send it back to be updated at no charge. I asked him to find out what SB 0949 was and he took my email address and promised to get back to me. He did later corrected himself via email that 4.01 is optional for fixed wing and applies to helicopters and passed me to his supervisor.

In the meantime, we had BFRs to take. We flew the day prior to the BFRs to check what we could after the 530 service and a static check. We have a standard 1 hour route that requires minimal radio work. The 496 crossfill from the 530 did work. Apparently the day prior the 496 antenna was blocked enough by the hangar that it couldn't get a signal. We now know that if a 496 can't get a GPS signal, it won't do anything until it does. The next day we fly to the airport 20 minutes away to pick up our instructor and I notice that it takes many more turns to change frequencies. This was a big deal as we had 5 changes in a less than 20 minutes flight under busy class B airspace. Yikes, what else did Garmin do? What other surprises will there be?

The Garmin supervisor and I connected on Monday and we spoke for 70 minutes.

Problem 1 solved. What Garmin did do was change the frequency increments to the European standard so it took 3 times the number of clicks to get from one frequency to another. The supervisor explained the problem and this can be fixed via Aux page 3 Comm setup option.

Problem 2 solved. The current 530 software was still 3.3/3.2. and SB 0949 doesn't apply to fixed wing. Version 5.0 will come out this week but again is optional for our 530 install.

Problem 3 raised. Apparently no one in the field or at Garmin that I spoke with knew that if a dealer in the field howls loud enough about taking out the 530 and sending it away, Garmin now makes a kit so that a dealer can fix the knob problem in the field. Interesting that none of the other Garmin folks mentioned this.

Problem 4 solved - the original problem - The failed knob is an optical knob with detents. The whole front of the unit operates off the same circuit board. This work is subcontracted by Garmin to a Japanese company. So my understanding is that the entire front set of knobs was effectively replaced. The supervisor verified that this is not a common failure. The expense of this single board could be one reason why the service is so expensive.

Problem 5 raised - They also erased all our flight plans. Again as a computer person, there is no reason they can't suck these out and put them back after they mess with the software. Again, the supervisor said there was a process to do this but clearly, it was not done on my unit. While it is not a huge issue to us, it is a big deal to Part 135 operators. Frankly at $1,100, I expect this to be done.

Problem 6 raised. Garmin effectively lied to me on the service report and to the FAA on the 8130 when they stated that they "updated software to the latest version." First, they did not update the software at all and second the latest version is not installed - and it is also not applicable. A legal person could argue that the software was left at the latest applicable version. I suggested to Garmin that they require the repair tech to document the from and to levels of software installed.

Problem 7 raised. There is no access for a customer to what a Garmin SB entails. I suggested that because the FAA holds me responsible for what is in my airplane, Garmin should make this information available to me.

At $1,100 for Garmin service I would not expect to have to spend 4 hours of my time trying to find out what they actually did to my unit - I expect their documentation to be thorough and correct. I would not expect to have to correct their customization error on my system because they set the wrong continent.

All in all, a disappointing experience. Learned stuff but I doubt I really needed to know it or that will benefit me in the future - other than I will definitely look beyond Garmin for avionics needs. I may still buy Garmin but certainly not without more research for other options.

[Matt Bogard]

Pat,

Thanks for sharing this. I learned over the summer with my old Garmin 155 TSO that Garmin will either charge you an arm and a leg to repair something or, if it's more than a few years old, simply tell you to buy a new Garmin unit. Other folks have told me their service is strongly slanted towards making you buy new boxes rather than keeping the customer happy with their current stack.

I need to replace my now broken 155 TSO with a new GPS/NAV/COM and want to go ahead and enter the 21st century with a moving-map WAAS box. I've heard many great things about Avidyne and love their new IFD440 but it won't be here until next summer. It seems my options are either a refurbished or new 430 or a new GTN650. Given Garmin's track record of poor support, the $7,000 refurb or $8,000 new 430 doesn't seem worth the savings over a $10,000 GTN. Too bad Avidyne isn't shipping already...

[N3322G]

Goodness, found another problem during IPC ILS approach.

CDI did not automatically change from GPS to VLOC mode when the ILS frequency was in the unit. I believe the unti out of the box is programmed to automatically make this change - either that or we set it that way at install time as this is the way it has functioned since 2007. Caught it and made approach but long time instructor who has given Ken and I maybe a dozen IPCs in this aircraft wondered why it didn't change as expected.

Well, on aux page 3, CDI/Alarms Menu, item 3 is where this is selected. So three menus deep. Credit on finding this one goes to husband Ken. Why this got changed during a knob repair is beyond me.

Don't know how many more of these surprises there will be. Not real fond of surprises. Garmin cannot tell me why these options were changed and cannot tell me what other items were changed.

Garmin continues to point to the dealer as the entity responsible for matching pre-and post- customization. Since the knob was broken, there was no way for the dealer to pull the pre-service customizations. Only the Garmin tech know what they changed and they didn't write it down.

[DAVEG24]

Hi Pat,

Interesting to read about your problems. I seriously wonder why your dealer didn't offer to fix the knob issue in house. On my 530 the G/S receiver failed. My choice was to send the unit to Garmin ($1,100), or send it to JA, the original installer, and have them replace the G/S rec with a new one for $500. I chose the later, and had my 530 back in a week. I think the moral of the story is always check for other options over the blanket charge from Garmin. On the other hand, if you know there is a serious problem, $1,100 could be a bargain.

It is annoying to get a unit back and discover that nothing works the way it used to. This makes me think I should go out and look at each page in my 530 and write down those settings, so when the day of reckoning comes, I'll be able to reset mine to it's previous setup. Human nature being what it is means I probably won't, but I'll only have myself to blame. Sort of like backing up a computer. I know it needs to be done regularly, but I procrastinate and only do it occasionally.

Keep us posted if other anomalies show up.

Dave Gitelman