Propeller Recommendations

[greg]

The propeller on our 1960 PA-24 - 180, based at PIE in Florida, has to be replaced. It is an older model Haertzell, possibly the orginal on the plane. Pitting, corrosion and out of tolerance. (I can get into that story another time). It is time to look for a replacement and possibly an upgrade and I'm looking for recommendations. The prop shop that found the problems has given us 2 quotes. One is for the Hartzell Top Prop with Scimitar blades for around $7,000 and the other is for the McCaulley Black Mac 3 blade for around $11,000. Both are STCed the 180 and both do away with the A.D. on the current prop. I heard the McCaulley supposedly has some problem with rust and requires more maintenance. Hartzell's web site claims that the Scimitar blades are quieter, improve climb and may increase cruise speed. Anyone have experience with either of these two or a recommendation for another.
Thanks in advance - Greg

[DAVEG24]

I replaced the prop on my 180 15 years ago with the Hartzell Top Prop. No regrets. The plane climbs faster and cruises slightly faster. I prefer it to the three blade McCauley, although some people swear by the Mc. I don't think you'll be unhappy with the Hartzell. If you would like more info, you can contact me directly.

Dave Gitelman

[Zach Grant L1011jock]

Greg,
Unless something has changed very recently, the Top Prop replacement STC'd for the 180 Comanche does not have scimitar blades. I have the Mac 3 bld scimitar on my 180 and love it. I just overhauled it for $1900 with no problems found. The two blade may be a little faster down low, but the three blade is faster up high in my research, and it has equivelent performance at lower RPM which spells fuel savings. Some people have had issue with excessive vibration on the 3 bld mac, but I have not. I also have the dual exhaust, which changes out the old suspended can muffler that many believe is the source of the resonance vibration. Good luck in your replacement quest. I think you will find either prop will be a marked improvement over the old "club"!

-Zach

[greg]

Thanks for your responses. I'm leaning hard toward the 2 blade Hartzell. I hope we will get same performance increases that Dave has. Zach, the prop shop that gave me the quotes told me the 2 blade Hartzell Top Prop conversion kit with scimitar blades is STCed for the Comanche 180. I have looked at Hartzell's web site and see that they do have have a Top Prop 2 blade conversion with scimitar blades that is STCed for a couple planes but don't see the Comanche 180 on the list. I will check with the shop again tomorrow. Possibly it is a recent change as you suggested or maybe they are mistaken. We also have the duel exhaust so it is good to know that if we decided to go with the 3 blade Mac, the vibration problem some have reported may not be an issue for us. But there is still the 4g price difference.
Thanks again to both of you.

Greg

[Pat Donovan]

And to make the decision just a little harder, I also had to replace my original propeller for the same reasons you did and chose the Hartzell because it was so much cheaper and appeared to at least maintain the same performance. I had an earlier 180 with the Black Mac and enjoyed what appeared to be better acceleration for takeoff, but the difference in price won out the second time around. People who heard the airplane really liked the change in sound the 3rd blade made.

Hartzell has had problems with the spinner cracking on the same propeller that you would be getting, but only on the Mooneys apparently. That said, Hartzell has been VERY good in my opinion on warranty work regarding the spinner. They've given me a new spinner without my asking and at no cost.

Good luck,
Pat D

[greg]

We ordered the Hartzell and hope to have it in by the end of next week. Zach, I I had the prop shop double check and you were correct, it is NOT scimitar blades on the 2 blade top prop conversion for Comanche. The listing in the book above the Comanche was for another piper with the lycoming 360 that that the scimitar blades were STCed for.

Il give an update once I have a few hours on the new prop.

Greg

[DAVEG24]

Greg,

Now that you have made the decision to buy the Hartzell prop, I have one more recommendation. Have the prop dynamically balanced. You may not think it is needed, but it will make a big difference in smoothness of the overall operation of the engine and prop. The new prop will come (I think) with a newer version of the spinner, which is supposed to resolve the cracking problem. In any case, after replacing several spinners for just that problem, I finally have a spinner that has not cracked in the Iast 1,000 hours, and expect it will last for many more hours. I think Hartzell has also done away with the fillet plates, and hopefully has made the opening where the spinner fits over the blades big enough so that it can be put on and taken off without damaging the blades. I still have to be very careful when removing or installing mine not to damage the blade. Good luck with the new prop. I think you'll like it a lot. It's a little bit lighter than the original, so you'll have to get used to that when landing.

Dave Gitelman

[Quint Van Deman]

[Zach Grant L1011jock]

Aircraft specialists, KJVY. We do lots of business with them. Ask for Jeff.
Zach

[Quint Van Deman]

[DAVEG24]

Quint,

You didn't ask, but I'll offer up some advice anyway. Hartzell will not drop ship, last I knew. Therefore, the prop has to be shipped to the seller, then shipped to you. Shipping is sometimes expensive. Usually the quoted price is plus shipping. If you're buying out of state, you may save sales tax, if there is one. Something else to consider is who is going to hang the prop. You may be able to make a deal where the seller will hang the prop as part of the deal. Lastly, the prop should be dynamically balanced. Sellers will usually discount this service to a buyer. All of this lends itself to buying from someone local or nearby. Just a head up, in case you hadn't thought about the "total" cost. Good luck. You will definately enjoy the new prop.

Dave Gitelman

[Quint Van Deman]

[Quint Van Deman]

Even better. These guys: http://propworksinc.com/
Are letting the 2 blade Top Prop go for $6300 + drop ship $150 + freight ($175 for me).

Anyone ever dealt with them or had a problem? That's almost $1k off the going rate.

[greg]

[Steve Marcozzi]

Quint,

If you haven't bought one yet, I bought a Top Prop for my 180 the same place as Zach mentioned.....Aircraft Specialists at JVY. Mine didn't pass on OH, they gave me a good deal, and since it was out of state (as in a little ways across the river), I didn't have to pay sales tax. Our state run shop sends all their props over there so they dropped it off.

Steve