Future of ICS

[rstan]

Hi All,
I am amazed that given all the discussion on the Delphi Board that no one involved in ICS Management has even considered creating a discussion on this board.
Am I the only one that has noticed this lack of "interest" in discussing ICS direction ?
Cheers
Richard Stanley
N99AR

[AlanBreen]

Hi Richard,

No you are not the only one. Me too.

I would have thought this was the ideal place to have such a discussion. Much better here than the Delphi site. I'm a firm believer in having such discussion "behind closed doors" and not in public like Delphi is.

Funny thing is there was a lot of hoopla on Delphi before the "Fly In" at Santa Monica, but there has been nothing since advising what actually happened.

I think ICS needs to make better use of the ICS website and this forum to provide better communication and help to the ICS membership.

I don't think ICS should be in the business of owning STC's or Type Certificates etc, but the should be providing encouragement and support for appropriate establishments e.g. Webco, to do these sorts of things.

How's that for a start.

Alan

[rstan]

Hi Alan,
This IS an ideal place to have SOME interchange and SOME debate.
Where is everybody ?
Is it lack of interest or lack of desire to change ?
Any thoughts.......clearly the world is changing....and the needs of Comanche owners are changing......should ICS at very least recognize the need to change in SOME WAY ?
Richard

[Jay]

I think that owning STCs is a mistake for an organization like ICS. STCs aren't free by any means, and once you own one there is the requirement to actually produce the parts in a certified facility.

I am more in favor of ICS making a strategic alliance where we could facilitate STC ownership by a commercial organization or organizations that could own STCs and supervise the making and selling of PMA parts while ICS provided some advice and "got the word out". Webco comes to mind, along with Comanche Gear.

I started to write some comments on the "Outlaw" group, but to be honest I'm personally still teed off over Trudel's attacks on the NW Tribe while I was Chief, and I'd best just be quiet.

Sincerely,

Jay

[Monica Rehkopf]

As I do not have enough time to spend watching two forums I just stick to this one and so I cannot really tell what is happening on Delphi.
From what you describe it follows that all those fond of discussing and garnering attention have obviously congregated on the Delphi forum and as human nature doesn’t like to abandon dear habits they will also remain there.

The ICS forum in contrast is more of the nature of being a “mere” help desk for Comanche issues.

My active time at ICS started from about the year 2000 and ever since then I have witnessed endless debates and discussions. Many brilliant ideas have been kicked around. And changes have taken place.
Debates and Changes have ruled ICS throughout its lifetime and it could go on like this forever.
It hasn’t done badly and obviously I see an advantage of being a member or else I would have quit.

What I understand is that you are looking to change this Management by “muddle” (this is meant to be fondly disrespectful) to a somewhat more coordinated and strategic management.
I certainly would also like to see this.
For that we need a strong personality who takes the bull by the horns. Who leads the way, sees what needs to be done, motivates working groups and doesn’t shrink back when problems arise.
I can see several such personalities in our Society.
However . . . here comes the second part:
this is a very hard, full time, more than two or three years task that asks for tons of real dedication as nothing whatsoever is reimbursed (unless you are happy to sometimes receive some “love” from your members).
This combination of necessary characteristics most probably rules out finding someone for the job.
And this is where the wishful thinking ends (and status quo remains).

Monica
P.S. I hope I'm not too far off the track of this thread

[Jay]

Monica, I'd say that's right on.

The only comment I have is that since there are "...several such personalities in our Society", in addition to receiving some love, the person who takes the bull by the horns will receive a good amount of argument and dissent, which won't make a tough job any easier.

Best regards,

Jay

[jeffrey aryan]

I do not agree. There should be discussions on both web sites.

If ICS really wants to be the Premier Type Club then it should open the disscussion to everyone and hope more people will want to become members because ICS can offer better services.

ICS needs to reinvent itself and narrow down to specifics on what they provide to being a member. Until that happens they will continue to lose valuable members and money.

Times are changing and ICS must keep up with it.


Jeff Aryan
10151

[jeffrey aryan]

Here are my suggestions for ICS.

1. Own STC's.
A one stop shop will help provide some revenue.

2. Catalog STC's and 337's, make them available.
Make it like a google search.

3. Make this Web-Site easier to use.

4. Provide a list of approved or suggested repair shops.
Update the list frequently.

5. Update all information on a schedule.

6. Get rid of the structure of letting the tribes set up there
own way. Standardize.
ICS headquarters would the place to go on how Comanches should be maintained and how training should be conducted.

7. Be more open on the meetings. Every week there should be an update or information on what is happening.

These are some suggestions.

Jeff Aryan
10151

[AlanBreen]

Jeff has come up with a list. I don't agree with all of what has has listed but it's a good starting point.

Unless ICS wants to have permanent employees to provide the support for STC's ICS should stay right away from owning them. I think STC's need to be owned by others.

A catalogue of STC's and 337's is a good idea.

This forum isn't hard to use. However there are improvements that could be made to the website.

Keeping things up to date on a schedule is a good idea.

Centralisation is certainly worth considering

Regular updates via email needs to happen as soon as possible.

ICS needs to have more contact between Tribe Chiefs and the BOD. Two to three meetings a year is just plain stupid. There is too long between meetings and it takes forever for anything to be done. Meetings can be held via a phone hook up using VOIP (e.g. Skype) at very little cost.

That said ICS is making great strides in providing member support. The proficiency programme, the Tips, the QRH, The Flight Manuals.

[AlanBreen]

As for having two sites, I think that is stupid, it splits the value of both sites. All Comanche forum "talk" shoud be on this site.

There needs to be a public area here and a members only area, as there used to be. Many other owners groups have a simlar setup. Potential members can get a feel for the place but if they want in depth help and info they need to become a member.

[9089P]

"GIVE ME DELPHI OR GIVE ME...."

Don

[Jay]

I concur with many of Jeff's suggestions, with a one exception and a couple of modifications.

I don't think that ICS has the financial wherewithal to go out and buy STCs, and it certainly doesn't have the structure to support PMA production. But ICS COULD work with people like Webco to support their efforts to maintain STCs and to produce PMA parts.

Cataloging STCs and field approvals (337s) is an excellent idea.

A list of approved shops fits right in with forming alliances with people who own STCs and who are experienced installers.

I don't have any issue with the openness of ICS, the financials and minutes are posted for everyone to see.

Once ICS as collected the information on STCs and 337s it should be posted in a "members only" section of this forum as well as being made available by phone call from a member. I don't care whether the forum used is this one or Delphi, but I do think that a members only section here with the technical information would be another incentive to join ICS.

I think that the tribe structure does have value, in that the size of the US and the separation of our EU and "down under" members leads naturally to regional events, be they social or technical in nature. On the other hand, a strong central position will be needed to provide technical support. So I guess I'm suggesting that the technical information and referrals be handled centrally, but that the tribes continue to drive regional activities.

The big issue is going to be, who is going to do this? ICS current governance model lacks any central full time "executive director". To be perfectly clear, there is no one person who, as Monica put it, can "take the bull by the horns". I don't know of any organization that gets anything done without such a person. Any volunteers?

A few more questions, just to keep the discussion rolling.

Will it require a paid technical support position? How would we fund that? Could a private partner provide the full time support on a contract basis to ICS? Could a deal be done where ICS would facilitate a private partner acquiring and supporting STCs in exchange for that entity providing free phone support to ICS members? Could that entity also provide a full time "executive director"?

Sorry to have more questions than answers!

[Monica Rehkopf]

[rstan]

Hi Monica,
Ultimately it will take volunteers to implement any ideas BUT....
do we (current leadership) know what the MAJORITY of ICS members really want from the organization ? Or are they simply making assumptions based on input from only a few outspoken members ?
Since we publish a monthly beautiful magazine, how difficult would it be to poll ALL of our members to find out what they REALLY want form ICS ? What they are willing to PAY for ? What activities they would be willing to volunteer to support ?
I wonder why there is no outreach to find these answers ?
Regards
Richard StanleyN99AR

[Ben Ayalon]

Monica
You took the words right out of my mouth so I will repeat what I said on Delphi.

All
We all want a better service from ICS, many of us see the shortfalls of ICS and can see what should be done but no one wants to do it, it is always someone else's job. When the membership fees were increased by something like $15-$20 a year people left as it was too expensive. In order to implement Jeff's ideas, which some are good and I agree with, we will need to hire a person that understand a thing or two about aviation, where the money will come from? One possibility is to go Digital and scrap the 'Flyer' but then we will need a paid Webmaster that will host our site, this cost money but... where the money will come from? Do I hear someone declaring a donation of $50,000 for the interim period?

Like many I want to see an ICS that can provide a better tech. Support to its members but I just can’t see how this can be achieved. So may I suggest something. Lets first find a solution to the question of “How are we going to do it” than we can talk about what we want.

Well, time to place myself in the kitchen and cook dinner, Mrs. is back from work in 30min.

Ben