I talked to an avionics shop today and he told me in a nice way that I was nuts for wanting to spend a bunch of money for a gps in my 1959 250, he said I would never recoupe my investment on that old of a plane.I had about decided to go with a KLN-94 just to lower my investment, but he told me that install labor would kill me because of the indicator and annunciators, but I thought all that stuff would just plug into each other. Can someone tell me what is going to drive the cost up. I found a KLN-94 complete, less indicator for under 3k.
Kevin
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KLN 94
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by Jay » Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:56 am
If you have a KLN 89B, then I think that he 94 is a plug in unit. Otherwise, installing any IFR GPS is a fairly complex endeavor. A GPS/NAV/Comm like a 400 series Garmin panel mount is only marginally more complex then a KLN 94 since you can still use your old Comm and Nav antennas and associated wiring.
But back to your avionics guy's comment. Nope, you'll never get your investment back. But you also won't be flying any GPS approaches. My philosophy is that I own an airplane to FLY. If I wanted a safe investment, then I'd have bought bonds. But you can't fly with bonds. At least not until they mature!
Best,
Jay
But back to your avionics guy's comment. Nope, you'll never get your investment back. But you also won't be flying any GPS approaches. My philosophy is that I own an airplane to FLY. If I wanted a safe investment, then I'd have bought bonds. But you can't fly with bonds. At least not until they mature!
Best,
Jay
Jay
PA 30 N7702Y
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Jay - ICS member
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by 9089P » Wed Sep 03, 2008 1:06 am
Hi Kevin,
If the measure of whether you do this or not is whether you will recoup the investment then don't do anything, because that will not happen. New avionics or anything else is like remodelling your kitchen, you won't get your money out.
When the bride and I decide on an improvement to the a/c the first criteria we use is this; "will this investment improve the utility of the a/c for us, ie will it aid us in the flying we do? Using this criteria we did not add a jpi or upgrade the 430 to a 530 but did upgrade the 430 to waas and did add an a/p. Everyone is different in this regard. Emotion does play a roll but we try to make what we do useful.
The other question you might consider is whether you are keeping this a/c for the long term or you are planning to move on to something else. I would not spend my money to create someone else's dream a/c. Just some thoughts.
Good luck, Don
If the measure of whether you do this or not is whether you will recoup the investment then don't do anything, because that will not happen. New avionics or anything else is like remodelling your kitchen, you won't get your money out.
When the bride and I decide on an improvement to the a/c the first criteria we use is this; "will this investment improve the utility of the a/c for us, ie will it aid us in the flying we do? Using this criteria we did not add a jpi or upgrade the 430 to a 530 but did upgrade the 430 to waas and did add an a/p. Everyone is different in this regard. Emotion does play a roll but we try to make what we do useful.
The other question you might consider is whether you are keeping this a/c for the long term or you are planning to move on to something else. I would not spend my money to create someone else's dream a/c. Just some thoughts.
Good luck, Don
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by ics-12766 » Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:49 pm
Kevin:
From Steve at TriStar Aviation. Your KLN-94 install cost will vary widely depending on what nav indicator(s) you've got now. You may need a compatible indicator and an annunciator. He seemed to think around $7,000 is a reasonable round number for an IFR-certified 94 package. He says to be sure you get an antenna with whatever unit you buy... The more complete the better. Including required manual, checklists, etc. He has no used 94's in stock now.
Interesting: He says the KLN-90B is still being produced
Somebody must be buying them!
From Steve at TriStar Aviation. Your KLN-94 install cost will vary widely depending on what nav indicator(s) you've got now. You may need a compatible indicator and an annunciator. He seemed to think around $7,000 is a reasonable round number for an IFR-certified 94 package. He says to be sure you get an antenna with whatever unit you buy... The more complete the better. Including required manual, checklists, etc. He has no used 94's in stock now.
Interesting: He says the KLN-90B is still being produced
Somebody must be buying them!
Rich Clover
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by Chuck Lee » Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:58 pm
Hi Kevin,
A little history if you will. When loran first came out there were many makes and models to choose from -- except BendixKing. When BendixKing saw enough sales being lost they built the best one -- the KLN 88 for the unheard of price of $5,000.00. With in two years GPS came out and the value of the KLN 88 evaporated. They used the same platform as the KLN 88 and changed the engine to GPS and now the KLN 90; a fine unit for big airplanes.
Again they were loosing sales for the general aviation market until they came out with the KLN 89B. It had a moving map - a big deal at the time. I bought a KLN 89B for my 1960 250 and it was great for two years when Garmin showed up at the Oshkosh show with their new color map 430. The crowd was so thick one could hardly see it. No one was at the BendixKing booth.
BendixKing, to hold what customer base they had, came out with the KLN 94 which is a straight drop in for the KLN 89B. For , I believe, $1,000.00 they swapped my KLN 89B for a new KLN 94. Their story being WAAS is ten years off and their unit will do everything Garmin's will.
As you know WAAS came much faster and Garmin had a lock on the market. Again BendixKing watched the sales and market move away. This year they had the 770 at Oshkosh and they want me to upgrade - and I may.
My KLN 94 has taken my 99 and I from Toronto, Canada to Marco Island, Florida and everywhere in between with no problems. I have a Lone Star docking station that I take the 94 home and update it's data base. I also load my flight plan at home when talking to flight service; of course ATC changes it and it is easy to change in the air. John and Martha King have a great DVD on how to use the KLN 94.
As far as investments in old airplanes goes I bought my 250 for $20,000.00 and added a few more dollars to it. I am still way ahead of the game when comparing it to anything else flying. A few months ago a dear friend and client said to me " If you had not taken me flying in that damn Comanche you would have three million more dollars to invest for me." He got bit bad by the aviation bug; but that is another story.
Fly the 250 and the KLN 94 now and when the time and dollars come to upgrade the KLN 94 then worry about it and find another shop.
Best regards,
Chuck Lee
A little history if you will. When loran first came out there were many makes and models to choose from -- except BendixKing. When BendixKing saw enough sales being lost they built the best one -- the KLN 88 for the unheard of price of $5,000.00. With in two years GPS came out and the value of the KLN 88 evaporated. They used the same platform as the KLN 88 and changed the engine to GPS and now the KLN 90; a fine unit for big airplanes.
Again they were loosing sales for the general aviation market until they came out with the KLN 89B. It had a moving map - a big deal at the time. I bought a KLN 89B for my 1960 250 and it was great for two years when Garmin showed up at the Oshkosh show with their new color map 430. The crowd was so thick one could hardly see it. No one was at the BendixKing booth.
BendixKing, to hold what customer base they had, came out with the KLN 94 which is a straight drop in for the KLN 89B. For , I believe, $1,000.00 they swapped my KLN 89B for a new KLN 94. Their story being WAAS is ten years off and their unit will do everything Garmin's will.
As you know WAAS came much faster and Garmin had a lock on the market. Again BendixKing watched the sales and market move away. This year they had the 770 at Oshkosh and they want me to upgrade - and I may.
My KLN 94 has taken my 99 and I from Toronto, Canada to Marco Island, Florida and everywhere in between with no problems. I have a Lone Star docking station that I take the 94 home and update it's data base. I also load my flight plan at home when talking to flight service; of course ATC changes it and it is easy to change in the air. John and Martha King have a great DVD on how to use the KLN 94.
As far as investments in old airplanes goes I bought my 250 for $20,000.00 and added a few more dollars to it. I am still way ahead of the game when comparing it to anything else flying. A few months ago a dear friend and client said to me " If you had not taken me flying in that damn Comanche you would have three million more dollars to invest for me." He got bit bad by the aviation bug; but that is another story.
Fly the 250 and the KLN 94 now and when the time and dollars come to upgrade the KLN 94 then worry about it and find another shop.
Best regards,
Chuck Lee
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