Growing the membership

[Stephen Flaherty]

[jeffrey aryan]

Stephen,

I agree with you. The items you state are part, of the reasons' why I am not going to renew my membership.

Yes, everyone is nice person but, the powers to be won't let real membership drives work.

Jeff Aryan ICS 10151

[Tim Winters]

As one of the FNG's here I've been hesitant to voice my opinion but I definitely agree and I too have found this site to be quite disappointing (and I'm a member).

And just as important, I've run across a fair share of misinformation here. And misinformation stated as fact causes me to question all other information and wonder if it's accurate. Here's one little ditty that made me raise my eyebrows and say "huh?":

"But remember, it is often a lot colder at altitude than it is on the ground and a less viscose oil may actually be required."

[Stephen Flaherty]

Thanks for posting your note. It demonstrates that the problem is not perceived by only one person.

I wrote to my Tribe Chief about this concern and I would suggest that you should write your Tribe Chief also. Tell your Tribe Chief that you think this site needs to be improved so that that person can carry the message to the ICS Board.

Incidentally, I have written my Tribe Chief on two matter in the past 2 weeks but I have received no responses. I hope you receive a better response.

sf

[Ivan_Willson]

I don't have a tribe chief and am in the Pacific NW tribe, we have not had a chief for a number of years as they resigned due to ICS politics.

Anyway it doesnt seem like anyone actually reads this web site, or updates it.

The avearage age of a Comanche owner is about 75+ years old, born way before the information age and are clueless on how to "work" the internet.

Ivan

[Stephen Flaherty]

Ivan,

Wow, that is fascinating info about the NW Tribe. Since the tribe rep is the person who represents the interests of your tribe at the ICS Board, the rep is the person to write with your concerns.

Are you in a position to take the role of Tribe Chief?

[Scott Ducey]

[Ben Ayalon]

Stephen
I have to admit that I have never thought about it in this way, you have a very valid point. I agree with SOME of the things you said and I will raise it with Dave our webmaster.

Tim
FNG???
Please educate me.

You wrote about wrong information. Do you believe anything you read in the newspapers? Remember that the answers that you get are from other members, remember, some are more qualified than other. You need to use your own knowledge, common sense and your knowledge of the person that answered you query.
If I ask a question about an engine and Charlie Melot answers saying ‘A’ and someone else answers

Fly safe

Ben

[Stephen Flaherty]

Ben,


FNG = F@@@@@@ New Guy. I expect you can figure it out from there.

Appreciate your consideration of my comments. I hope this might effect positive change.

sf

[Kristin Winter]

Scott and All:

>No one is allowed to enter the ICS decision world UNLESS they conform to the existing thought process.<<

This is sadly very true. I used to be copied on the board of director's internal emails. While not the tribe rep, I am still the chief of the largest tribe. After our presentation and my refusal to fill a figurehead role on the airworthiness committee in order to provide a fig leaf to cover ICS's inaction, I have been cut off from communications.

ICS leadership is in a downward spiral. As has been said by others, the powers that be, eat their young/ Ironically, they are bitter that they have to do all the work. They use the fact that they do all the work to justify keeping all the power to themselves. As they will not share power or even seriously listen to nonconforming views, the new members get quickly fed up and disengage. It is the perfect Catch-22 for young members and the death spiral of ICS. They bemoan the lack of volunteers, yet refuse to look in the mirror to learn why there is a dearth of volunteers.

It is for that reason, I refused to run for an officer's position unless the current executive officer corp resigned en masse. I was willing to put in the effort to pull ICS out of the dive and work to get it to climb back into the sun. I was not willing to waste my time fighting entrenched members. While of good intentions, at least most of them, they are unwilling to take a risk, even when faced with certain failure long term. They seem to justify this by saying that the Comanche fleet will eventually dwindle anyway. This is defeatist thinking because even if we are losing 10 Comanches a year, there are a couple of hundred years worth of Comanches that are not ICS members. ICS could easily outlast even the youngest of us, provided there was a reason for everyone to join. Half the market does not see the value in ICS, so ICS must change. To change is to take a risk. This board will never take that risk. End of story.

[Stephen Flaherty]

Not all lost battles represent a lost war. Losing any battle, even a skirmish, stings, some hurt.....but from each lost battle we can learn something about ourselves, our goals, and the opponent..... then regroup, reassess, and plan to engage again another day.

Change takes time. The greater the change....the more time it takes.

My philosophy is this: always stay on the moral high ground, never sink to being disrespectful,focus on facts not hearsay, identify concrete goals, know the rules of engagement and dont let up.

[Kristin Winter]

Stephen,

You are as bad a pontificator as I am.

Have at it. You have my full encouragement. I have only been working at it for four years, so perhaps I did not give it enough time.

[jeffrey aryan]

To Stephen,

As you can see, these are some of the reasons why I advocate a whole new organization. A clean fresh start is the way to go because of the "Old Guards" unwillingness to let go and enjoy themselves in other ventures.

It appears to me and others this is the only way to keep our aircraft alive and viable.

Jeff Aryan ICS 10151

[Scott Ducey]

Stephen, I felt the same way as you when I joined a few years ago. Initially, I listened - to the complaints on the forums and those on the Board. I like to think I am pretty reasonable, but maybe i am not. After listening to both sides, I formed my own opinion. It seemed from talks with various members of the Board, that in many ways they didn't disagree with their detractors. What I heard was a frustration that a number of people 'talked' about the problems, however, very few were willing to do something about it. I volunteered, wrote articles, defended ICS, put together videos, and I participated. I also became the Secretary/Scribe for the NE Tribe. Unfortunately I found out the hard way that ICS is locked in the past, with no intention of changing.

As far as your comments regarding change, yes, change takes time. However, one has to acknowledge that a need for change exists. My point is the folks calling the shots at ICS do not recognize the need for change. There is compelling evidence that issues need to be addressed - first economic issues and practical ones. All have been memorialized extensively here and at Delphi. ICS's solution is to form another committee. In the end you will find that nothing substantive will be done. I honestly hope I am wrong, but don't you think it makes sense if you are forming a committee to deal with the problems that impacts ALL ICS members, shouldn't there be an open dialog WITH its members? A dialog would be happening IF they honestly cared about the opinion of our members. It is not happening because they are more interested in proving they are right. This all sounds strikingly like the Young Persons Advisory Council, which was touted as a platform to get feedback from our Younger members to determine what they want since they are the Comanche future. The person that headed up this committee pretty much glossed over and ignored all the suggestions that were made because....the feedback he received didn't conform to what HE wants for ICS. The exercise was a complete sham.

We can quote Sun Tzu, Machiavelli or Deepak Chopra, but the truth is ICS will not let anyone else into their club, and frankly are not serving the fleet or its members by making decisions in isolation. You may consider this disrespectful or hearsay, but it is the situation based on factual experience. Stephen, I volunteered because I care about these airplanes and wanted to help. I did not volunteer because I need to feel important by running something, or having a title behind my name.

Nevertheless, if you feel strongly that you can effectuate change I encourage you to participate, volunteer and contribute.

Good luck in whatever you decide, and fly safe.

Best regards,

Scott Ducey

[Stephen Flaherty]

Scott,

I appreciate your sharing your experience and knowledge. I know enough to understand that repeating mistakes from the past is not productive.

I have been sending emails to my tribe chief, but so far have received no responses. Do you know if a Tribe Chief has the authority to conduct a poll of the members of their particular tribe without approval from the Board? Do you know if there is a Tribe Chief that is interested in conducting such a poll that would characterize their tribe along with their wants and needs from the organization? I'd be interested in helping to develop and distribute such a survey.