Growing the membership

[Tim Winters]

[Richard R Kuszyk]

To All Members:

In the last two years every new Comanch owner has receive a New Member Marketing Package. This includes a cover letter welcoming him/her to the Comanche World, list of benefits and a copy of the latest Flyer. We are tied into the FAA and get this information from them. Within two weeks of FAA Registration the new owner receives this package. The Flyer contains all contact information, Tribes, Tribe Chiefs/Reps, Officers, BODs, Fly-ins, Membership Application etc.

We have consistantly conducted marketing programs directed to our non-members conveying the advantages of membership. The lastest non-member marketing program will be conduted in August, 2010.

Non-members are receiving detailed and timely information about ICS

In the past the Marketing Committee has looked at offering a 3 month free membership to new members. We had decided that this was not an effective marketing tool for ICS.

Name, address, email information of members is protected by all organization that I know. Within ICS only the Tribe Chiefs has this information. This is specified by our "Standing Rules". Our members do not want their contact information open to the public. To have non-members have access to this information is not acceptable to our members.

On all Type Clubs that I have visited there are sections that are for members only. This varies with the Type Club. The purpose of this is to collect dues to perpetuate the Type Club.

Dick Kuszyk
Marketing Committee Chairman

[Kristin Winter]

What has been done in the past has not led to any growth in membership. In fact, membership has been declining at a faster rate than Comanches themselves are disappearing. What changes is ICS making that is designed to bring in NEW members?

[Scott Ducey]

Dick, I think you are confused. The "New Member Marketing Package" is merely a new membership package, which includes the mag, a sticker, and other misc items. Non-members do not receive updates about ICS. Where are you coming up with this info? But since you are the resident "Marketing Expert" what specific accomplishments can you point to relative to the work you have done for ICS that supports your contention of being a marketing expert? Can you quantify the results? has you work resulted in increased membership, or stemming the tide of members leaving? have you made an attempt at all to reconcile the concerns of a number of members about their issues and concerns for the Comanche future? Because I think if I look at the Young Members Advisory Council (which you spearheaded), I thought this was a disaster on your part. You portrayed this to the Board as you are trying to elicit feedback from the young members. On paper it is a great idea. there were 5 or 6 groups that were contacted, and only two responded at all to your query. Hardly seems like you did a good job marketing there. I guess the best part of all, you largely ignored the feedback from young members because it conflicted with your agenda at the Spring Board meeting. i do not view this behavior as tenents of a good leader.

Having said this, I do believe you do a very good job at marketing yourself. While you failed at trying to run things at the EAA (at least that is what i hear), you are doing a good job at convincing the ICS leadership that you are the man for the job. I do not think you are the man for the ICS future, however, I don't think I am either. but i know my limitations. From where I stand, you have really not accomplished anything for ICS. You attend board meetings and do not listen, and when someone tries to make a point, you speak over them. you even tried to tell Bruce thuman at the spring board meeting the cost about shipping max conrads plane to Piper. you said $1,000 because you did it for boats. Bruce in short order proved you did not know what you were talking about, but you continued your tone, as if you knew exactly what the answer was, and the truth is, you didn't. I am sure none of what I say here is news to those at the ICS board either.

You claim to have done research on other aviation organizations, and use this research to support your hypothesis. HOwever, nowhere is there a formal & detailed report about your efforts. I suspect your research is involves doing a google search and looking at AOPA, EAA and ABS. That really is not research. the truth is, none of these organizations should be compared to ICS, except perhaps ABS. But ABS does not have the same issues as ICS, they are still supported, and they have members in multiples of us.

It is unfortunate that you view this as a political game, as frankly, this is something that should be fun. This post that you make here epitomizes your approach - lots of words, but very little content. You do not seem to understand the simple tenants of the information that ICS captures and is available to all members, not just you. you are not even aware that the inforamtion that you contend is kept privately, is widely available to anyone. i would think the "marketing chairman" would know this. i would think someone that wants to run ICS would know this too.

I hope you do not view this as 'personal'. I am not very good at politics. I just like keeping things simple and out in the open. Since you and Bernie subscribe to one-sided discussions, perhaps it would be a good idea to include this dialog in the Comanche Flyer since you rarely wade into the forums. It is important for the membership know what kind of person you are, understand your positions, and you vision for ICS since you seem quite determined to have a leadership role.

Best regards,

Scott Ducey

[Ben Ayalon]

Tim
Now I understand what you meant, if it is possible please let me know where the mistakes are and I will pass the list to the tips editor for a review so if you are correct they will be corrected in the next edition, or if possible will be corrected on the on line edition.

Dick
I can’t see how opening one or two sections of the ICS site to non members can reveal members personal details. If there is such a worry and tribe chiefs/tribe reps do not want to have their details available to non members this can be overcome by having an email address such as newmemebrsinfo@ics.com then this email address can be linked to a tribe chief or an officer. How are we going to contact people that are looking to buy an aircraft and the Comanche is one of their options? They are not on the FAA list hence will never be in a possession of a marketing pack. As the European Tribe Chief I would like to mention that there are new Comanche owners that do not live in the USA and use the internet for information. Since December I have caused 3 potential owners to join the ICS, they haven't found what they are looking for but they are still searching. The EU Tribe's site is also close to non members but as a result of the original post, next week when I meet the EU Tribe webmaster this point will be invistigate.
Why every time when there is a new thought or idea that comes from an ordinary member rather than a board member we always hear how great and wonderful the ICS is rather than seeing a serious effort to listen and adopt?
The idea to open some sections of the site to non members will not cost us money; I also don’t think that it will risk our data. Opening sections of the ICS site to non members can be seen as another tool in the ICS marketing mix.

Thanks

Ben

[Stephen Flaherty]

I was pleased to receive a reply from my Tribe Chief yesterday in regards to an email I sent about access to the website by non-members. My Tribe Chief has given me an opportunity to draft some comments to be put in a section for non-members. I will do this and work through my Tribe Chief for possible inclusion on the website.

Regarding access to information and the balance between keeping information restricted to members versus open access I have the following thoughts: 1) I think restricting information to "members only" is seen as a strong-arm tactic to force a person to join. I also think people react negatively to this tactic and immediately become suspicious of organizations that behave this way. 2) There has been a shift in how information is marketed since the internet took off. In past times it was common to charge the user for access to the information by way of subscription fees for magazines and joining organizations. But now revenue is generated by leaving the information free to access but by selling space on the site for links to vendors. The sponsoring sites "know" how many times a page is hit and charge the vendors based on the the number of hits for the site. A paradigm shift in selling information has already occurred and the organization should consider adapting to the new way of business.

I think all will agree that it is reasonable to restrict access to some information and to maintain privacy limits.

[David Callon]

I only come to this site once a month. The web site sucks. I thought it was just me. It is not use friendly. I once complained and was told it was just me. I am only a youngster at 53 maybe some of you older guys could teach me how to use a web site. I spend 4 to 5 hours a day on other web sites. It must be my lack of skill.

[N3322G]

Dick, Your comments on recruiting new members were interesting. I fully support Scott Ducey's reply and questions about effectiveness of the current marketing programs. The Board meeting I attended saw no documentation of your efforts in contrast to the excellent reports done by other Board members and Tribe Chiefs and Reps.

Let me also comment on the leadership skills and lack of welcoming attitude I personally experienced at your hands because I suspect you will continue to look for Comanche leadership positions and others should be aware of your style.

I recall our first conversation in 2008. I volunteered to support Zach Grant's 50 for 50 Comanche mass arrival at Oshkosh celebrating the 50th year of the first Comanche production by orchestrating local publicity - I was experienced and successful at doing this with my company that ran the National Air Races by U.S. Air Race, Inc. I coordinated with Zach and the then President, Dave Fitzgerald, who suggested I also contact you as the marketing guy.

The conversation went something like this. 'Hi Dick, I'm Pat Keefer and I fly a Twin Comanche. Dave Fitzgerald suggested I contact you to volunteer to help promote Comanches for the 50 for 50 mass arrival at Oshkosh.'

Your response was especially memorable as it went something like this - 'who are you and why should I talk to you? I've never heard of you.'

I shared my credentials of 38 years of Comanche flying, the joint holder (with my mother, Hall of Famer, Marion Jayne) of the FAI Gold Medal for the longest race in history 24 days around the world, experienced aviation events promoter and a scheduled speaker at the ICS tent at OSH. Still, you declined my offer of help to promote the Comanche brand and termed it "a useless waste of time".

Given your short experience with Comanche ownership, I decided to proceed with Press releases anyway to EAA and the local Watertown press and the results were front page coverage on the EAA AirVenture daily paper for Comanches and more photos than any other mass arrival on the EAA website - even though the other mass arrivals had more aircraft. Further we had front page coverage on the local Watertown paper for Comanches.

I want Comanches to continue to be a vibrant and viable aircraft - it takes committed, forward-looking, welcoming leadership to make that happen. I view the Twin as transportation and I need it to be reliably maintained - granted, it is enjoyable transportation. As you have publicly stated, you view the Comanche as an antique aircraft and purchased it for that reason and that makes your perspective dramatically different than those who want to regularly fly - hence the focus on the magazine instead of focus on the less glamorous type support.

I also support Kristin's remarks. I do encourage all Comanche owners to support each other and will continue to add my 40 years of flying and maintenance experiences where it can help others via the Comanche Forums.

[jeffrey aryan]

To Dick,

Please, can you tell how many new membership packages were sent out ? And the results ?


Thank You,

Jeff Aryan

[Jody Brausch]

If the current direction of the ICS isn't enough to make me rethink my membership in the organization, the current forum discussions certainly are. A couple of the frequent responders to these chats seem to turn every forum topic into an opportunity to bash the current BOD, and I am seriously tired of it. Change takes time, and is a process. I am certain that the executive committee hears the arguments "loud and clear" by now. I'm somewhat amused with the fact that anyone would ever take the pilot of a 125 knot twin comanche seriously, anyway. Let's get on with the business of the ICS, and taking care of our beautiful aircraft. Enough already!

[Scott Ducey]

Jody, what kind of change do you foresee considering the Board has no plans of moving away from being a magazine producing organization? I am not really sure what the 125 knot twin comanche remark means. Some of us have tried to effectuate change, and our goal was indeed to take BETTER care of our beautiful aircraft. Some of us are really just tired of ICS ignoring the issues and playing politics.

[fowlerflaps]

wow 125kt Twinco! That's fast! Which mods do you have? Maybe the tip tanks I am currently fitting to my bird will get me there.

[Scott Ducey]

Hey Chad. Long time no hear. Yea, Freud would say there are some that are preoccupied with size because of their own lack thereof. It sounds like it may also pertain to pilots and their preoccupation with speed. I do not get wrapped up in things like that, because I am not lacking in the important area...well that is what i have been told anyway

Chad, so you still selling your PA-30? Drop me an email and let me know how you are doing. You heading to Oshkosh?

Best regards,

Scott Ducey

[Ben Ayalon]

[jeffrey aryan]